The main bar area.
The back bar. New tiles are boring.
The new door way and light sign!
And the beer will be delivered by our rock 'n roll new van!
- Drink it or don't - it's a matter of choice is it not. I don't go to bars selling only Stella Artois, Magners and soda water on draught - but they're all still busy with those that like that sort of thing. Vote with your feet and not your mouth. I'll be there with bells on and can't wait. Jock Dryburgh05.03.2011
- Grief! There appears to be a bit of a stooshie going on here. Cask/Keg? I like my beer out a glass - you can pick it up with one hand and still have the other free for scratching (pork or otherwise). That's how I got my beer when I was in the Brewdog in Aberdeen on Sunday for a wee drink (5 wee drinks). Excellent couple of hours with fine beer - thanks chaps. Hope the Edinburgh pub goes as well. Last Sunday mentioned at http://miceforlent.blogspot.com/2011/03/brewdog.html Sandy04.03.2011
- fucking yawn JohnBarleycorn04.03.2011
- Can we finally put this to bed. No Cask, only keg. No Buckie! You'll have Tokyo* on keg and like it. An interesting aside. Met the new Brewdog Edinburgh Manager tonight. She said she had a background in cask. WTF. Hey at least she was drinking keg beer. Actually it's not an aside. This was a Brewdog Bar Edinburgh blog post before it was Hijacked. Ian Prise04.03.2011
- Never mind all the shenanigans below, this pub is on the wrong coast! Get the Glasgow pub sorted and get buckie on tap Toni C03.03.2011
- Get over it. There won't ever beer cask beer in a Brewdog bar. The bar is Aberdeen is going great with an all keg line up. If the financial figures published recently are anything to go by the Aberdeen bar looks like it added almost £600K to the companies turnover in 3 months of opening. They have hit on a winning formula. Why change it. Ian Prise03.03.2011
- Well what have we all learned these last few days.
Brewdog bars will be doing keg and only keg. It what they said for a start and they are sticking to their guns.
Good cask ales are also available elsewhere if thats your thing, but not on cruise ships.
Ben Nunn has entirely (depite being a shareholder) failed to understand the concept behind Brewdog bars, as being something new, innotative, and ultimately well patronised by residents and visitors alike.
Ben Nunn has also dug himself a very deep hole. Can any one lend him a ladder?IanPrise03.03.2011
- hmm, not sure about cask v keg as I've no experience of tasting both versions of the same (or similar) beer. But would the difference be similar to bottle conditioned v. none bottle conditioned? If so I find bottle conditioned ales are sometimes better than filtered, but not often, and are sometimes off/undrinkable. My (reasonably readily available) bottled beers of choice are Brewdog stuff/Sierra Nevada Pale ale/McKeowns (sp) Champion Ale. All fine ales, but the one that is least consistent is the Sierra Nevada (bottle conditioned). Pete03.03.2011
- Will there be cocktails on sale? Sharon02.03.2011
- God! Really another Cask vs Keg debate!?
Exactly the reason I cancelled my CAMRA membership this year. I've just moved to Gothenburg (great beer scene btw) and had the pleasure of visiting the Mikkeller bar in Copenhagen a couple of weekends ago.
I had no problem in lapping up the beers as they were just sheer quality. I am also a huge fan of cask ale. But like many posters have mentioned, different strokes for different folks. Different beers taste better on different dispensing formats, and this is no more certain than with hop forward IPA's or Bitter imperial stouts / porters.
In the same way I think Old Ales aren't at all suited to Keg.
I really wish this futile argument wasn't an issue. Ultimately, it should be all about the quality of the actual beer and nothing more surely!Twitcher02.03.2011
- Quality, loving this chat!
Benjamin, you're entitled to your views as this is a free country BUT i think you go about it in completely the wrong way, implying your opinions are 100% correct and if someone thinks something different, they are wrong. I think the point is - Brewdog make beer they like to drink - the fact lots of other people like it too means they have a business from it. They could probably sell even more beer if they used less hops and malt and therefore make it much cheaper. But they dont because they dont want to.
They now have bars, they produce the majority of beer sold there and therefore who better to decide how best to dispense it...they prefer keg, therefore they serve it in keg...completely their choice, they do it because they like that best. When you have your own business the great thing about it is you do what you believe is right...yes they have shareholders, of which you are obviously one, but i'm afriad you are only a tiny tiny part of it and just because you think something different, does mean you have the right to insist they change things.
I am lucky enough to have tried most Brewdog beers on both cask and keg, some i prefer on cask, some i prefer on keg. My opinion though is that i'd much rather have the beers i prefer on cask in a pub who's main focus is cask not simply trying to be a bar that tries to appeal to everyone but by doing so doesnt excel at anything. I like bars with focus and Brewdog focus on great keg beers in cool surroundings - im good with that!Calum Robertson02.03.2011
- This 'cask' is ultimately superior to keg dogma is erroneous. Higher ABV hoppy beers (particularly above 6%) like BrewDog make are just about always better on keg in my experience, the C02 lifts the aroma, helps balance the higher alcohol and cleans the palate. I've drunk quite a bit of US hoppy beer on cask and it's invariably a cloying unbalanced mess. Yes cask ale in the right condition is fantastic but it suits lower ABV beers. Stronger and hoppier beers (like BrewDog make) suit extra C02 and they work better in bottle or keg. RichB02.03.2011
- Get over it. There won't ever beer cask beer in a Brewdog bar. The bar is Aberdeen is going great with an all keg line up. If the financial figures published recently are anything to go by the Aberdeen bar looks like it added almost £600K to the companies turnover in 3 months of opening. They have hit on a winning formula. Why change it. Ian Prise02.03.2011
- Yes, that's right. The entire nation of China is lazy and arrogant.
Also, everybody in Barbados feels inappropriately guilty whenever they eat toast, French women can't count higher than a hundred, the Sengalese universally loathe people named Colin, and all erect penises in Mexico measure exactly six and a quarter inches.
Now let's all congratulate John on delivering the most uncompromisingly sharp witticism of all time, and get back to the beer discussion, shall we?
Fuck it, I'm going to the pub.Benjamin Nunn02.03.2011
now if there is something a Chinaman isn't it is lazy. Just look how many Ipods there are in the world.
And as for arrogant, there is no I in team (there is however one in China which only serves to confuse the matter somewhat.)
- John's comment is genius. Did no one else notice it.
Who cares about keg v cask, Benn N thinks the entire nation of China is lazy.
Racism has no place in craft beer (keg or cask Benn)Adrian02.03.2011
You're absolutely right. Just a couple of rotating cask beers would do me fine - and that's what they do in a lot of brewpubs in the US.
They also sometimes make an event of the tapping feature of the cask versions - they are announced as something special and exciting, and there's a build up of a crowd to come and partake each time a new cask is tapped.
The idea that 'Industrial' decor should somehow rule out cask beer is ridiculous. It's a feature of many specialist bars in the States, as well as places like Brew Wharf in London.
Mind you, it's become just as much of a cliche as wooden beams and pumps and barstools and tables made from casks. etc.
I'd like to have seen something a bit more radical from Brewdog on the decor side really.Benjamin Nunn02.03.2011
- "Why not sell real ale as well as keg?" - bencarter
That's what i've been saying from the beginning. Just one or maybe two rotating brewdog beers on cask in the bars would be great. Just get some new age cask pumps with handles made out of aircraft aluminium if you're worried about a traditional wooden hand pump ruining your "industrial" look. ;)Tom02.03.2011
I'm not sure it really is so easy in practice.
More than once, I've sampled the same cask beer on the same day in two different pubs, and the two samples have been completely unrecognisable as the same beer - one fantastic and flavoursome, the other sickeningly undrinkable.
There are pubs where the beer is almost always brilliant, and those where it's usually crap - seems to me that the skill of the proprietor impacts significantly on the end product.
And I know that that in itself can be taken as an argument for keg, because consistency becomes easy to achieve.
What worries me, after todays discussion, is that Brewdog genuinely seem to see the 'gold standard' as being keg beer rather than as something which is acceptable but will always be second best.
My *hope* was that cask would remain the flagship product, and the advent of Brewdog keg beers would mean that there would be something nice to drink in restaurants, cafe bars, stadia, cruise ships'n'shit.
My fear is that none of the above will happen, but Brewdog beers will become increasingly scarce in cask form, because you guys just won't have your hearts in it.
You guys rock, in so many, many ways. But on this one, you so totally don't.Benjamin Nunn02.03.2011
- did you actually really read what ben nunn said or read his original article?
Seems obvious to me that hes not saying that making keg beer is inherently lazy, just that the people who serve it dont need to make the same effort as pubs that sell real ale.
Also you say yourself "cheap easy and lucrative", isnt that the same really as when he said lazy penny pinchers, so dont let him wind you up.
i drink 77 lager in bottles from the supermarket and it tastes great, but thats not because of the skill of mr tesco is it?
i havent tried draft brewdog, but i'm a lager drinker and I would probably prefer the keg version. There must be enough room for us all to be happy. Why not sell real ale as well as keg?
btw, ben nunn, great blog m8
- Thanks to Red and Chris I have learned a little more about beer and brewing this afternoon. I hope you learned something too Ben. Don't worry too much. I don't think that at anytime anyone has said that Brewdog will no longer supply their beers in cask. I've only ever had 5AM Saint out of a cask once and I far prefer the keg version. That's just my opinion.
You should try AB04, AB05, or even Tokyo* out of a keg. Beer about as good as it gets. Get your arse upto Aberdeen some weekend and actually try the beer as the Brewers intend it to be drunk. If you don't like it, there is always the Prince of Wales or the Wetherspoons with in easy walking distance.Ian Prise02.03.2011
- Mr Nunn,
I am a brewer at BrewDog and one of my responsibility's is bright beer preparation. To suggest that preparing beer for kegging takes little to no skill is an absolute laugh. And rather insulting.
Its rather easy to take a cask off a lorry, roll it around a bit, let it settle, use a couple of different cut bits of wood and then run it thought a hand pump. It may have been seen as a black art in olden times but its all fairly straight forward.
Think of this, if I cock up a 10,000L filtration run I'd be hung. Or even drowned in my folly. If a cellarman fucks up a cask he or she would have to sheepishly pour 40l down the drain and hope that nobody saw.BrewDogRed02.03.2011
- Benjamin. Let me explain, as carefully as I can, without 'insulting your intelligence'.
I've done a bit of beer writing myself so my first suggestion would be to get all the information you need for an arguement, before starting and arguement.
Keg costs more to produce, a lot more. That is a fact. That is why kegged products from ANY brewery are more expensive than their cask products. Would you like a breakdown of those costs? Kegging machines are expensive, then it needs carbonating, kegs aren't exactly cheap (which is why most microbrewers will rent them) then you need to pay a technician to have them installed in a venue, and then maintained. Towers aren't cheap either.
Cask beer is put in to the cask from the tank and driven to the venue.
It strikes me that it is far 'lazier' to pump out loads of cask beer, which takes no time at all to put in to vessels and get to the venue, leaving someone else with all the work?
Why are the BrewDog bars only having keg? Because we think that our beers taste better in that format and those bars will be the showcase for our beers, the way we want people to taste them.
Now, I have a questions. Have you ever worked in a bar and dealt with cask ale? Have you ever accidentally moved a cask and had to wait hours for it to settle again? Have you EVER been on a cruise ship that remained completely still at all times?
Thats why cruise ships don't serve cask you moron. Its nothing to do with being lazy, its completely impractical. Likewise, restaurants don't sell cask because, by and large, they sell more wine than beer and therefore don't want to risk it going off and losing money. Not lazy, completely impractical.
Stadiums don't sell cask beer because the turnover is too high and they don't have the time or the ability to serve that volume of cask beer in the right conditions.
Also, how many restaurants, cruise ships (ffs) and Stadiums have the right facilities to serve cask beer in the right way? Is it their main focus? Should it be their main focus? No, their main focus is to provide people with a drink to compliment the main event, be it food, a concert, a football match or a caberet act. They want cheap easy and lucrative. Cask beer is not those things in those places.
For a beer writer you don't seem to know much about beer or the beer industry. I don't think anyone needs to insult your intelligence, you seem to be doing a very good job on your own
- @ Benjamin.
"it's like how I prefer Indian food to Chinese"
Does this mean you think the Chinese are all lazy, arrogant penny pinchers?John02.03.2011
- Well, if I make it to a shareholders meeting, and the only beer is keg, then that is what I'll drink, and I'm sure I'll enjoy it.
It's not as simple as saying all cask is good and all keg is bad, and I'd rather have a pint of flavoursome beer in keg form than a bland cask beer.
it's like how I prefer Indian food to Chinese, but I'd rather eat an excellent Egg Foo Yong than a bad Jalfrezi. etc.
I'll still be deeply disappointed in Brewdog though. As, I'm sure, will many of us who became shareholders because we like their beers, because we drank them in cask form at CAMRA beer festivals, sang their praises loudly and put them on the map.
Maybe I am fighting a losing battle here, but I passionately believe that the same beer will always taste nicer in well-kept cask form than any other method of storage or dispense, and for Brewdog's flagship outlets - their showrooms if you will - to disregard cask completely and utterly makes me a bit sad.
The 'there are loads of places to drink good cask beer in Town X' argument seems a bit like Rolls Royce deciding that they'll only put their aircraft engines in the showroom because there are loads of other places to buy nice cars.Benjamin Nunn02.03.2011
- Ben. While I admire your passion for cask, I suspect you are on a hiding to nothing here. Brewdog bars are going to do keg, not cask. As Chris said earlier there are lots of bars doing good cask beer in Edinburgh and no doubt some of them are selling Brewdog on cask too.
Now I'm thinking would it be such a good idea to compete directly with some of your existing customers?
The simple answer to that question is no.
It's all down to personal choice. I love the Brewdog bar in Aberdeen. excellent beer, from around the world and always something new to try. If you are hell bent on drinking cask, then we won't be seeing you in a Brewdog bar any where. That's fine by me. It leaves more room at the bar for the rest of us who actually appreciate the efforts of the entire Brewdog team.
Do you visit any bars on a regular basis, which has the guys who actually brew the beer pop in occasionally and are happy to talk to you about the beer.
I would buy you a pint at the next shareholder meeting, but as it will be coming out of a keg I won't bother. you won't appreciate it.Ian Prise02.03.2011
- I like turtles... Gumbo02.03.2011
- James, you're not answering the question, and the specific price of a pint of keg beer in your bar is irrelevant given there's no cask available, and thus no cask price to compare it to. Here in London, Tom's figures of £4 for keg and £3.30 for cask Brewdog are about right.
My 'ignorance' as you see it notwithstanding, my offer remains: I'll buy you a pint - at whatever cost - and we can discuss things, man to man, brewer to beer writer, and you'll get some free publicity.
Dan, I believe cask is better because that's what my tastebuds tell me, and ultimately, I don't really give a fuck about anything other than maximising my enjoyment.
The reason I'd rather drink cask beer than keg beer is the same as the reason I'd rather drink Punk IPA than Stella. I. like. it. more.
Keg beer is lazier because it requires less skill to serve in optimum condition and doesn't impose time windows on when it can reasonably be served, which is why restaurants, stadia, cruiseships and so forth generally don't serve real ale.
There's a reason why good cellar keepers are highly regarded - sometimes the efforts of the publican are more important to beer tasting good than that of the brewer. I guess some brewers wouldn't want anybody else to get any credit for beer tasting good though...
- "All the natural wastage that cask dispense entails".
Kinda sums it up for me as both a shareholder and an enviromentalist. If you waste less beer, by having it in keg then I'm for it more than I was before.
How much energy is wasted in brewing and transporting the portion of cask ale that goes straight down the drain.
Perhaps we need to start a campaign to have a carbon tax applied to cask ale as it appears to be such a wasteful enterprise.Ian Prise02.03.2011
- Loving this. Have it! Ding Ding! Pete O02.03.2011
- @Benjamin Nunn again, your ignorance undermines you whimsical point. A pint of 77 is £3.20 in our bars. James, BrewDog02.03.2011
- James, are you seriously suggesting that keg, sold at £4/pint with little to no wastage is less profitable for you than cask sold at £3.30/pint with all the natural wastage that cask dispense entails?
Are your kegs made of gold?
- James, well said.
- @Benjamin Nunn to say that our focus on keg is due to 'penny pincing' just shows your ignorance.
Keg is much, much more expensive than cask to produce.
We feel the type of beer that we brew, hoppy bold beers, suit keg dispense much better thsn cask dispense. So many people do cask ale, why should we not want to do our own thing?
- I would just like to ask Benjamin Nunn why he believes cask is better and why keg is laziness? Dan02.03.2011
- What is the point in continually going on about cask in Brewdogbar Edinburgh. I don't think you will be getting it ever. The Brewdog bar in Aberdeen has been a huge sucess for the company, contributing a huge amount of money to the turnover figures in a short space of time. It's busy most nights, and crammed at weekends. Yes it may arragont, lazy and penny pinching to have an all keg line up, but the formula looks like it's working in Aberdeen, so why bother indulging the Benjamin Nunns of this world. You don't have to drink there if they don't want too. Ian Prise02.03.2011
- Lots of us think that cask is better and don't appreciate our intelligence being insulted.
I can hardly hear the 'decor' argument for the sound of wool being pulled over folks eyes.
Your beers might be superior to those brewed by Whitbread and Courage in the 1970s, but I suspect your reasons for going all-keg are exactly the same. Laziness, arrogance, and penny-pinching.
- With regards this keg v cask argument. One of the key values we want the brewdog bars to have is thier own identity. One of these identities is that they will have an industrial feel to the decor. Another is that we want only to sell kegged, bottled and canned beer.
This does not mean we dont like cask ale, much in the same way as because they have an industrial look we dont like other decor.
Hope this helps people realise where we're coming from.BrewDogTom02.03.2011
- The thing that lets brewdog down is the small commitment to real ale as I can guess that the reason for not doing much cask beer as they have no control what goes on in the beer after it leaves the brewery.
I have friends who would go into the pub and drink your beer, but there friends would not go in as there is no cask ale.Rob Castle02.03.2011
- there will be no cask beer at the BrewDog bar. Edinburgh has plenty of great cask beer bars, it doesn't need another one. What Edinburgh doesn't have however, is a proper international beer bar, a world leading craft beer Mecca with some of the best beers in the world.
I've seen the list of upcoming beers, and almost every single one you'd have to leave the UK to go and find.Chris02.03.2011
Yes i have tried punk ipa, 5am saint, trashy blonde, edge, paradox and rip tide on cask and punk ipa, 5am saint, 77 lager, ipa is dead on keg and especially in the case of 5am saint which is a fantastic aromatic and flavourful beer on cask tasted exactly like bottled beer on keg.
Also around here brewdog on cask costs around the £3.30 mark which is better than the £4.00 that their keg beer is going for.Tom02.03.2011
- Enough of this cask/keg nonsense - how about doing the right thing and brewing something named for Edinburgh's greatest son, David Hume. Eamonn01.03.2011
- how can i go about organsising a tasting session at the edinburgh bar, trying to organise a night for a group from edinburgh and this will be spot on dunny01.03.2011
- Having been a regular patron of Brewdog bar Aberdeen since it opened, I can honestly say I have not had a bad Pint, Schooner, Half, or Third yet. The Quality of the beers, both Brewdog and guest have been outstanding. Welcome to the Craft Beer Revolution. If Cask is your thing thats fine, but I suspect you are going to have to buy it somewhere else. I can't even get a diet cola for the wife's vodka. That's part of the policy too. IanPrise01.03.2011
- They never put any Casks up in Aberdeen, but I think that is more likely to do with the distance involved in getting a large range of Cask Ales in good condition. No point in doing it if your basically giving (for example) 3 different beers a rotation.
Maybe Edinburgh will be close enough that they can get some pumps, maybe not, but we can all rest easy in the knowledge that no matter what happens, Good Beer will be had by all.Graham01.03.2011
- Have you tried all the brewdog beers in both formats? By having it slightly cooler and by having a small amount of carbonation far more flavours are released from the beer. Believe me the kegs don't taste the same as the bottles. Kegs provide a far better quality beer than casks Dan01.03.2011
- Brewdog on cask > Brewdog on keg. No contest.
Keg beer is alright, but you might as well stay at home and drink bottled beer because it tastes exactly the same.Tom01.03.2011
- Handpumps would be a great thing if there was a british beer that fitted into the brewdog ethos and actually tasted better out of a cask. Fact is the keg revolution is here and its only nostalgia that is making people so passionate about cask. Go in and drink what brewdog give you off draft because 999999 out of 1000000 its going to be way better than something off cask. Nuff said Dan01.03.2011
- Saw a red Brew Dog van on Meadow Place today. Was a bit confusing? LC01.03.2011
- Sweet!! Can't wait to check it out. Jordan01.03.2011
- About a fortnight so they say on facebook. Here's it's location on streetview http://snipurl.com/261qmu FergusMcIver01.03.2011
- To echo what Fergus said i don't think it would kill you to have at least one cask ale tap in there. Even most American craft beer bars i went to last year had one or two cask ales along with their keg selection. Tom01.03.2011
- Wow! Looks almost ready to open. What date does it open? Jon01.03.2011
- Awesome progress guys! Can't wait to visit! Will you have handpumps in there? FergusMcIver01.03.2011